Meshell Ndegeocello
a.k.a.
Mary Johnson, MeShell NdegeOcello
TOUGH COOKIE
Meshell Ndegeocello Offers an Eclectic Anthropological Mixtape
Meshell Ndegeocello may no longer be Bitter, but on her fourth disc, Cookie: The Anthropological Mixtape, the talented singer-songwriter-musician continues to rock fans with her funky, sociopolitical jams and sensual Plantation Lullabies. But by backing her polemics with a rich musical tapestry that interweaves funk, rock, soul, hip-hop, Latin grooves, and the go-go music of her native Washington, D.C., Ndegeocello finds a way, in Cookie, to make the message go down sweet. Prior to the disc's release, the outspoken artist waxed poetic about love, sex, religion, music that inspires her, and more with Barnes & Noble.com's R&B and Hip-Hop editor Tracy E. Hopkins.
Barnes & Noble.com: What's the significance of the title Cookie: The Anthropological Mixtape?
Meshell Ndegeocello: It's commenting on cookie-cut-out music, and artists are the spiritual anthropologists of our time. So that's why I say "anthropological mix tape." The reason it's a mix tape is that I hope it gets spread around and copied and sent around like how I grew up listening to music -- word-of-mouth.
B&N.com: You incorporate more hip-hop on this disc, such as the "Pocketbook" remix with Redman and Tweet. Was that in an effort to attract more of a mainstream audience?
MN: Yeah, that's definitely my record company's goal. [laughs] At least it's people I like. I wanted Rockwilder (who does the remix with Missy Elliott). I think he's incredible. His beats really hit into the dance culture. So I was very happy to have him do something different. And for me it's different than a remix. I totally laid all the vocals over it -- it's like a whole new song. And I can get into that more than I can when they take your vocals and put it over another beat. So this was great for me. It was still making music.
B&N.com: On "Barry Farms," you go back to your D.C. roots and incorporate go-go music. Do you keep up on the music scene there?
MN: Not really. I go to see my parents every now and then. But I played go-go for like four or five years. It's just in me. A lot of people consider what I have to be a spoken-word style, and it's not really. It's sort of the D.C. go-go delivery of talking story and freestylin' about what's around you. So go-go has been a huge influence in my music. I played four or five nights a week live. That's why it's so important to me to play live.
B&N.com: Do you think you haven't had more mainstream success because of the strong racial, sexual, and political views you express?
MN: I don't really think about it. I don't know why [the mainstream doesn't respond to me]. There'd be too many factors involved. All I can really do is be myself, and tell my story. And I really feel [like my music is] a gift to people who need to hear that story. Those who don't need it, don't really get it. And I'm okay with that.
B&N.com: You can hear the influences of classic soul and funk in your music. But your music can't be easily classified as neo-soul. How were you able to establish a sound that's uniquely your own?
MN: That's what's important. Artists who have individuality inspire me. There will only be one Marvin Gaye, one Donny Hathaway, and one Aretha Franklin. I was just listening to A Tribe Called Quest's The Low End Theory the other day, and how [Q-Tip] breaks down how he let his father hear hip-hop and it reminded him of bebop. Everything runs in cycles. But it's about personality. There's something true about you that comes through the music, and that's what inspires me. Prince just blew my mind until I wanted to be like him. So I've come to categorize my music as improvisational hip-hop, rhythm and blues music. It comes from those ideas and genres, but I also try to maintain me in those things.
B&N.com: You're the only female artist I've heard who sings about sexuality in almost the same reverential way that Prince does.
MN: [My sexuality] is definitely one of many facets of my personality. But that's what interesting about the music industry. They get locked on one aspect of someone's personality and they sell that. And then you don't feel any growth. I think that's a thread that goes through my records. The first album, Plantation Lullabies, is about adjusting to who I was becoming at that age. And the second album, Peace Beyond Passion, is about the metaphysical experience of life, like "Why am I here?" So much of the second record was connected to God and sex. It's like, "God says sex is wrong," and I was trying to figure all that out. The third record, Bitter, is about love and what love does to you -- when it's good love and when it's love gone wrong. This record is about, "Now I'm at this age and what am I doing?" Will I do anything to make money? Is this perception I have of me truly me or what other people think of me?
B&N.com: Have you reconciled the split between sexuality and spirituality?
MN: Oh yeah. The only time I truly have a God experience is when I'm with someone I love. I feel like we're at the end of religion, and I hope that helps us find a greater spirituality. But our fear of death is the fuel for great myth. Joseph Campbell wrote about it. And basically, it's gone awry when you have people flying planes into buildings and fighting over land. Then when you really think about it -- these religions and these books are telling you what to do with your body. To me the most romantic story is the story of David [in the Bible]. It also tells about the truth of man. David sees someone he wants so he sends her husband off to war so he can have her. These books that condemn sexuality and people being themselves are the very ones teaching us how to hurt one another and conquer people. Since September 11th [2001], I've let [all religion] go. The kingdom of heaven is at hand, and I think that's something you have to bring into your life [here and now]. Bottom line, I just want to be a good person.
B&N.com: What's the significance of the monkey on the disc's cover?
MN: Look at us, we are monkeys. We have consciousness, but just like every other species, we can destroy ourselves. But unlike the dinosaurs, we can see it happening. Yet in our arrogance and in the belief in the myth of some great heaven, we're eradicating ourselves. And the radio is the monkey-boy jukebox. Pay me, play this. Or you have to fit into the cookie-cutter format and make the record they need. I just want to make music. But this searching for the pot of gold and being rich -- look where it's gotten us all as a culture.
B&N.com: With albums like yours, Lauryn Hill's MTV Unplugged and John Forté's I, John, hip-hop and soul music seems to be breaking away from that cookie-cutter format.
MN: Oh, I love that John Forté record. Oh my God! Artists are having real experiences. My man [Forté] is in jail. That's real. And the seed of everything that gets people in strange positions is money. That's what I'm redefining for myself. Like, am I depressed because I'm not perceived this way or that way and I'm not making x amount of money? That was scaring me that my worth as a person is valued on how many records I've sold. And it didn't make me feel very good. But hey, Jesus didn't do anything until he was 33. To me, the dot-com age ushered in all of this youth-oriented belief. But all the good shit don't come 'til now.
B&N.com: You've collaborated with a lot of artists, from John Mellencamp to Alanis Morissette. Who else would you love to work with?
MN: System of a Down. I'd love to write something for Alicia Keys, because I like her voice and I'd like to see her have a career. Tweet, I'm just like "Oh my God." Her songs are the first time in a long time where I've put on a record and I feel she's singing to me -- like she's telling my pain. I also like Glenn Lewis, and I'd love to work with John Forté. I could bring some digital stuff to where he is and work that out. Actually, I would love to make an album in prison with some of the cats in there. The poet Etheridge Knight [whose poetry appears on the song "Akel Dama (Field of Blood)"] spent two-thirds of his adult life in prison -- he lived and died in prison. And I hope cats in prison listen to what he's saying and think, Why is this our story? I want to go to prison and get some true stories, not these glamorized versions of being pimps and hustlers.
B&N.com: What did you think of Brian McKnight using the piano hook from your song "Outside Your Door" for his ballad "Anytime"?
MN: [laughs loudly] I feel that he stole it and won't acknowledge it. Let me break it down to ya. I'm blessed. I'm a gifted muthaf**ka. I write a new tune every day. Everyone told me to take him to court. But he has to live with that. I sleep well every night. It's funny, he was someone I knew, hung out with, and talked to. Now he don't hang out or talk to me. It just is what it is.
B&N.com: You've mentioned some records you like already. Do you have any other favorites from 2001 or 2002 so far?
MN: Tweet's Southern Hummingbird, JD's Welcome to Detroit, John Forté's I, John, and System of a Down's Toxicity are hands-down the best records. Last year, I couldn't even watch the Grammys because there was so much music that got passed over. Tracy Chapman's Telling Stories [from 2000] got slept on. And speaking of [2001], the most slept-on record was Erykah Badu's Mama's Gun. People need to wake up, cause that record was killin'.
B&N.com: You broke down nicely what each of your albums is about. Do you already know what the next one will be about?
MN: I've already finished the next album. The next record is totally dealing with my subconscious mind. The music is really dreamy. So that's the next thing. It will be the record that you put on in the dark, literally, and sit with.
May, 2002
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